Location: Staying in Savatthi.

At that time, in the evening, the Venerable Bhūmija arose from his solitary meditation and approached the Venerable Sariputta. After arriving, he exchanged greetings with the Venerable Sariputta. After friendly greetings and courtesies, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the Venerable Bhūmija said to the Venerable Sariputta:

"Friend Sariputta, there are some ascetics and brahmins who advocate the doctrine of kamma. They declare that pleasure and pain are self-created. There are some ascetics and brahmins who advocate the doctrine of kamma. They declare that pleasure and pain are created by others. There are some ascetics and brahmins who advocate the doctrine of kamma. They declare that pleasure and pain are both self-created and created by others. And there are some ascetics and brahmins who advocate the doctrine of kamma. They declare that pleasure and pain are neither self-created nor created by others, but arise by chance. Friend Sariputta, what does the Blessed One say about this? What does he teach? How should we answer to properly express the Blessed One's view, without misrepresenting him, to explain the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, so that no legitimate criticism could stand?"

Sariputta replied: "Friend, the Blessed One has said that pleasure and pain are dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. Saying this expresses the Blessed One's view properly, without misrepresenting him, explaining the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, so that no legitimate criticism could stand.

Friend, those ascetics and brahmins who declare that pleasure and pain are self-created, even that is conditioned by contact. Those who declare that pleasure and pain are created by others... Those who declare that pleasure and pain are both self-created and created by others... Those who declare that pleasure and pain are neither self-created nor created by others but arise by chance, even that is conditioned by contact.

Friend, it is impossible for those ascetics and brahmins who declare that pleasure and pain are self-created to experience without contact. It is impossible for those who declare that pleasure and pain are created by others... Those who declare that pleasure and pain are both self-created and created by others... Those who declare that pleasure and pain are neither self-created nor created by others but arise by chance, to experience without contact."

The Venerable Ananda heard this conversation between the Venerable Sariputta and the Venerable Bhūmija. Then the Venerable Ananda approached the Blessed One. Having approached and paid homage to the Blessed One, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the Venerable Ananda reported to the Blessed One the entire conversation between the Venerable Sariputta and the Venerable Bhūmija.

[The Blessed One said:] "Good, good, Ananda! Sariputta has answered correctly. I have said, Ananda, that pleasure and pain are dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. Saying this expresses my view properly, without misrepresenting me, explaining the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, so that no legitimate criticism could stand.

Ananda, those ascetics and brahmins who declare that pleasure and pain are self-created, even that is conditioned by contact. Those who declare that pleasure and pain are created by others... Those who declare that pleasure and pain are both self-created and created by others... Those who declare that pleasure and pain are neither self-created nor created by others but arise by chance, even that is conditioned by contact.

Ananda, it is impossible for those ascetics and brahmins who declare that pleasure and pain are self-created to experience without contact. It is impossible for those who declare that pleasure and pain are created by others... Those who declare that pleasure and pain are both self-created and created by others... Those who declare that pleasure and pain are neither self-created nor created by others but arise by chance, to experience without contact.

Ananda, when there is the body, because of bodily volition, internal pleasure and pain arise. When there is speech, because of verbal volition, internal pleasure and pain arise. When there is the mind, because of mental volition, internal pleasure and pain arise. With ignorance as condition, these arise.

Ananda, either one generates the bodily formation oneself, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. Or others generate the bodily formation, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. Either one generates the bodily formation consciously, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. Or one generates the bodily formation unconsciously, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise.

Ananda, either one generates the verbal formation oneself, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. Or others generate the verbal formation, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. Either one generates the verbal formation consciously... Or one generates the verbal formation unconsciously, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise.

Ananda, either one generates the mental formation oneself, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. Or others generate the mental formation, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. Either one generates the mental formation consciously... Or one generates the mental formation unconsciously, because of which internal pleasure and pain arise.

Ananda, ignorance is included in these states. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance, there is no body because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. There is no speech because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. There is no mind because of which internal pleasure and pain arise. There is no field... no basis... no store... no condition because of which internal pleasure and pain arise."

This concludes the fifth discourse.

This discourse provides deep insights into the Buddhist concept of kamma (karma) and the nature of pleasure and pain. It emphasizes the dependent origination of all phenomena, the role of contact in experience, and the pervasive influence of ignorance. The Buddha refutes simplistic views of self-created or externally-created pleasure and pain, instead pointing to a complex web of conditions. He also indicates a path to liberation through the cessation of ignorance, which ends the cycle of conditioned experiences of pleasure and pain.

Based on this discourse, we can gain a deeper understanding of the concept of "kamma" (karma) in Buddhism:

1. The nature of kamma:

   The "bodily formations," "verbal formations," and "mental formations" mentioned in the text actually represent the three aspects of kamma. This indicates that kamma includes not only external actions (body and speech) but also internal thoughts and intentions (mind). This corresponds to the Buddhist concept of "three karmas of body, speech, and mind."

2. The complexity of kamma:

   The text points out that kamma can be self-created, created by others, or a combination of both. This shows that the formation of kamma is complex and cannot be simply attributed to personal actions or external influences.

3. Kamma and dependent origination:

   The Buddha emphasizes that pleasure and pain are dependently arisen, particularly highlighting the importance of "contact." This indicates that kamma is not an isolated action, but arises through the interaction of various conditions and factors. Kamma is both cause and effect, embodying the principle of dependent origination.

4. Consciousness in kamma:

   The text mentions that kamma can be conscious or unconscious. This suggests that even when we don't deliberately act, our behaviors and thoughts are constantly creating kamma. This emphasizes the importance of cultivating mindfulness.

5. Kamma and ignorance:

   The Buddha points out that ignorance is present in all these processes. This indicates that ignorance (lack of understanding of the truth) is the fundamental cause of kamma formation. Eliminating ignorance cuts off the root of karmic forces.

6. The results of kamma:

   The text repeatedly mentions "internal pleasure and pain" as the result of kamma. This indicates that kamma not only affects the external environment but directly influences our inner experiences.

7. Transcending kamma:

   Finally, the Buddha points out that by eliminating ignorance, one can transcend the bondage of karmic forces. This suggests that kamma is not destiny, but can be changed and transcended through practice and enlightenment.

Understanding these characteristics of kamma has important implications for our lives and practice:

1. Sense of responsibility: We should be responsible for our actions, speech, and thoughts, as they all create kamma.

2. Cause and effect connection: Our current situations and feelings are related to past kamma. At the same time, our current actions are shaping the future.

3. Importance of practice: Through practice and growing wisdom, we can gradually eliminate ignorance and thus change karmic patterns.

4. Mindful living: Cultivating mindfulness makes us more aware of our actions and thoughts, thereby creating better kamma.

5. Forgiveness and understanding: Recognizing the complexity of kamma, we can view others and ourselves with more tolerance.

6. Possibility of liberation: Kamma is not determinism. Through enlightenment and practice, we have the potential to transcend karmic bondage and attain true freedom.

In conclusion, this discourse provides us with a framework for deeply understanding kamma, showing us that kamma is not just a philosophical concept, but a practical principle closely related to our daily lives. By correctly understanding and applying the laws of kamma, we can better control our lives and move towards the path of enlightenment and liberation.

Based on this discourse, we can gain a deeper understanding of the concept of "ignorance" in Buddhism and its importance:

1. The universality of ignorance:

   The text mentions "ignorance is included in these states," indicating that ignorance is a universal phenomenon, permeating our activities at the levels of body, speech, and mind.

2. The relationship between ignorance and pleasure/pain:

   The Buddha points out that the arising of internal pleasure and pain is "with ignorance as condition." This indicates that ignorance is the fundamental cause of pleasure and pain, the source of suffering.

3. The connection between ignorance and kamma:

   The text shows that whether pleasure and pain are self-created, created by others, both, or arise by chance, they are all related to ignorance. This suggests that ignorance is the basic driving force behind the operation of karmic forces.

4. The nature of ignorance:

   Although the text doesn't directly define ignorance, from the context we can infer that ignorance refers to the lack of knowledge or misunderstanding of the true nature of reality, especially the lack of understanding of the principle of dependent origination.

5. The scope of influence of ignorance:

   The text mentions that ignorance affects body, speech, and mind, indicating that ignorance influences not only our thoughts but also our speech and actions.

6. Ignorance and consciousness:

   The Buddha mentions that both conscious and unconscious actions can produce pleasure and pain, suggesting that ignorance may operate even when we are unaware.

7. The elimination of ignorance:

   The text finally mentions "the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance," indicating that ignorance can be eliminated, which is also a core goal of Buddhist practice.

8. The state after the elimination of ignorance:

   When ignorance is completely eliminated, the text describes that "there is no body... speech... mind... because of which internal pleasure and pain arise," hinting at a liberated state beyond conventional pleasure and pain.

Understanding these characteristics of ignorance has important implications for our lives and practice:

1. Importance of awareness: We need to cultivate awareness to recognize the manifestations of ignorance in our daily lives.

2. Pursuit of wisdom: Since ignorance is the lack of knowledge of truth, the pursuit of wisdom and understanding of truth becomes key to overcoming ignorance.

3. Direction of practice: Practice should be dedicated to gradually reducing ignorance, which includes continuous observation and adjustment of our thoughts, speech, and actions.

4. Understanding of cause and effect: Recognizing ignorance as the root of suffering helps us understand various phenomena in life more deeply.

5. Possibility of liberation: The text points out that ignorance can be completely extinguished, giving us hope and motivation to pursue liberation.

6. Comprehensive observation: Ignorance affects body, speech, and mind, so our practice should comprehensively cover these three areas.

7. Cultivation of mindfulness: Since ignorance may operate unconsciously, cultivating mindfulness and maintaining clear awareness becomes particularly important.

8. Transcending duality: When ignorance is completely eliminated, we may experience a state beyond conventional pleasure and pain, suggesting a higher level of existence.

In conclusion, this discourse reveals the central position of ignorance in our lives. It is not only the root of suffering but also the main reason we are bound in the cycle of rebirth. By understanding ignorance, we can see our practice direction more clearly, strive to cultivate wisdom, and ultimately achieve complete enlightenment and liberation. Although this process is difficult, it is the essence of Buddhist practice.

This discourse delves deeply into the nature and causes of pleasure and pain, revealing the Buddha's profound insights into causality and the principle of dependent origination. Let's analyze the key points:

1. Presentation of the question:

The discourse begins with Venerable Bhūmija raising various views held by different ascetics and brahmins regarding the origin of pleasure and pain, including self-created, created by others, both self-created and created by others, and arising by chance. This reflects the diverse understandings of causality in ancient Indian philosophy.

2. The Buddha's position:

Sariputta, representing the Buddha, answers that pleasure and pain are dependently arisen, particularly emphasizing the importance of "contact." This embodies the core idea of Buddhist dependent origination theory, that all phenomena are interdependent and mutually conditioned.

3. The importance of contact:

The Buddha repeatedly emphasizes that regardless of which view is held, the arising of pleasure and pain is inseparable from "contact." Here, "contact" refers not only to physical contact but also includes psychological and cognitive levels of contact.

4. The role of body, speech, and mind:

The Buddha further explains that the arising of pleasure and pain is closely related to actions (kamma) in three aspects: body, speech, and mind. These actions can be voluntary or involuntary, conscious or unconscious.

5. The role of ignorance:

The Buddha points out that ignorance is always present in these processes. Ignorance is the root of suffering and the driving force of the cycle of rebirth.

6. The path to liberation:

Finally, the Buddha indicates that through the complete elimination of ignorance, one can cut off the root of the arising of pleasure and pain. This hints at the ultimate goal of Buddhist practice - liberation.

This discourse prompts us to deeply reflect on the nature of life and the meaning of human existence. It tells us:

1. Our feelings do not arise out of nowhere, nor are they arranged by fate, but have deep-rooted causes.

2. We are not passive recipients, but actively participate in the process of producing pleasure and pain through our own actions (kamma).

3. Realizing the importance of "contact," we can better understand and control our emotions and feelings.

4. Ignorance is the root of suffering, while wisdom is the key to liberation. Through practice and enlightenment, we can gradually eliminate ignorance and ultimately achieve liberation.

5. This profound understanding of the nature of pleasure and pain provides us with a new worldview and outlook on life, helping us face the ups and downs of life with a more peaceful and wise attitude.

In conclusion, this discourse is not just a philosophical treatise, but more of a practical guide, leading us on the path to enlightenment and liberation. It inspires us to reflect on our own actions, cultivate mindfulness, increase wisdom, and ultimately transcend the bondage of pleasure and pain, attaining true freedom and peace.

This teaching provides a comprehensive framework for understanding the nature of experience and the path to liberation in Buddhism. It emphasizes the interconnectedness of all phenomena, the role of our own actions in shaping our experiences, and the possibility of transcending suffering through wisdom and the elimination of ignorance. By deeply contemplating and applying these teachings in our lives, we can move towards greater peace, understanding, and ultimately, liberation.